HoorayDC
Aug 21 2008, 02:03 PM
Idol Wild: Archuleta "Crushes" Cook on Charts
Today 12:15 PM PDT by David Jenison
Here's the link:
http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b25317_ido...=rss_topstoriesHere's the article:
David Cook topped David Archuleta in their American Idol showdown, but now the little D has gotten some extra-large revenge.
The 17-year-old Archuleta's "Crush" has debuted at No. 2 on the Hot 100 singles chart, besting the No. 3 opening of Cook's "The Time of My Life" in June.
In fact, Archuleta just netted the biggest bow since Fall Out Boy's "This Ain't a Scene, It's an Arms Race" also debuted at No. 2 back in January 2007.
Archuleta is the first runner-up to outperform the reigning champ since the head-to-head matchup between Clay Aiken's "This Is the Night" and season-two victor Ruben Studdard's "Flying Without Wings." Aiken topped Studdard with what became the best-selling single of 2003.
"Crush" is the biggest bow by an Idol contestant for a song never performed on the show—in comparison, his show single "Imagine" actually underperformed with a No. 36 debut. Kelly Clarkson's "Since U Been Gone" is the only other nondebut single by an Idol contestant to reach as high as the No. 2 spot.
While Archuleta now claims the higher Hot 100 debut, Cook's "The Time of My Life" did better in the download department, selling 236,000 digital copies in its opening week to 166,000 copies for "Crush." Cook also set a SoundScan-era record that first week, when 11 of his songs cracked the Hot 100, topping Miley Cyrus' record of six. Only the Beatles have charted more songs at once with 14 spots back in '64.
Unfortunately for Cook, his No. 3 peak for "Time" also made him just the second Idol champ whose big-moment single failed to open in one of the top two spots. (Jordin Sparks missed the mark as well with a tepid No. 15 bow for "This Is My Now.")
Next up, the two Davids will go mano a mano in November, when both their albums are tentatively scheduled for release.
Idol wars notwithstanding, Rihanna's "Disturbia" was the big chart news, nailing down the No. 1 slot on the singles chart for a second straight week, while her previous chart topper, "Take a Bow," rose to No. 1 on the R&B/Hip-Hop chart.
In other Hot 100 news, Taylor Swift's "Change" sold 131,000 digital downloads for a No. 10 debut, making it her highest-charting single and the first top 10 entry of her young career. "Change," which will also appear on her forthcoming Fearless album, leads five song debuts from the AT&T Team USA compilation.
While Kid Rock's "All Summer Long" hasn't been released as a digital single, the faceless Hit Masters cover version debuted at No. 65 this week on 37,000 downloads. The Kid's version, meanwhile, climbed three spots to No. 25 on airplay alone.
Making news on the other charts, Coldplay scored its first Modern Rock chart topper with "Viva la Vida."
annie702
Aug 21 2008, 02:11 PM
looks like idol is going the fan-war route to market their albums.
Pam08
Aug 21 2008, 02:16 PM
QUOTE (annie702 @ Aug 21 2008, 06:11 PM)

looks like idol is going the fan-war route to market their albums.
Unfortunately yep, this looks to be the case. It's kind of sad if you ask me. I think there is room for both David's to be successful.
Scott
Aug 21 2008, 02:27 PM
I'm not so sure 19 Entertainment is behind this. Doesn't seem like marketing to me, and I can't imagine such a strategy working or why any of TPTB would think it would work.
I think David Jenison (article's writer) is very capable of coming up with this fan war scenario on his own. You will see this on EOnline and in the tabloids from here on in. You won't likely see it in People, Rolling Stone, ET or Access Hollywood - they don't play that way. We all know these comparisions are apples/oranges. There are no longer hard copy disc releases of coronation songs. Comparing a new, Top 40 professionally written song like "Crush" to an AI coronation song is ludicrous. And the mucis biz/charts has changed drastically since the 1st two American Idol season, 6 & 7 years ago.
trickortreat
Aug 21 2008, 02:34 PM
Who said the media was fair, all they need is an opening. He didn't mention that David sold all of his in 4 days, if he would have had a week, he would have debuted at number 1.
john_socal
Aug 21 2008, 02:35 PM
blah blah blah. Is this the best they can come up with? Crush probably landed in #2 partially because David Cook has been promoting Archie's single every chance he gets. We all know DC is such an upstanding guy that he would be genuinely happy for DA if he outsold him (which won't happen by the way).
annie702
Aug 21 2008, 02:38 PM
i don't understand why people get so caught up with the numbers. ok, maybe his paycheck dependents on it... but, so what... it's not like we're getting any of that. granted, it is fun to look at the numbers when they're in his favor... but cook is his own man.
i had an interesting discussion at the show last night with a non-cook fan sitting behind me. she was saying that cook didn't have to win, that it would have been better for archie to win it because he needed it more...being younger and less experienced. i believe that it didn't matter who won because ai in essence had TWO winners this year (perhaps at leat 3)... they both bring different strengths to the table. they get to experiment a bit with cook... he's got some experience and knows were he wants to go with his music. this is the first time an idol comes out the gate with so much creative control and contributions on his/her debut album. i also believe that ai is going to continue to capitalize on the "battle of the davids" and use the fan wars to fuel sales.
what do you guys think?
Scott
Aug 21 2008, 02:42 PM
QUOTE (annie702 @ Aug 21 2008, 03:38 PM)

i don't understand why people get so caught up with the numbers. ok, maybe his paycheck dependents on it... but, so what... it's not like we're getting any of that. granted, it is fun to look at the numbers when they're in his favor... but cook is his own man.
i had an interesting discussion at the show last night with a non-cook fan sitting behind me. she was saying that cook didn't have to win, that it would have been better for archie to win it because he needed it more...being younger and less experienced. i believe that it didn't matter who won because ai in essence had TWO winners this year (perhaps at leat 3)... they both bring different strengths to the table. they get to experiment a bit with cook... he's got some experience and knows were he wants to go with his music. this is the first time an idol comes out the gate with so much creative control and contributions on his/her debut album. i also believe that ai is going to continue to capitalize on the "battle of the davids" and use the fan wars to fuel sales.
what do you guys think?
You hit the nail on the head. This is what I've said numerous times in "paranoia" posts... that the AI Machine got two winners (i.e. guaranteed successes / best selling artists)... and so did America (and the rest of the world). And TPTB will milk that for all it's worth, which is GOOD. Why in the world wouldn't they want TWO top dogs in TWO separate music genres, on TWO different labels? I do think this is media crap. And it won't impact either of Davids' careers at this point in the game. Be patient. David Cook will come on like gang busters in November. I bet he debuts number 1.
Also, where as I couldn't not see the strategy of a Battle of the Davids, you just laid it out and you may be right! Mobilize and energize both Davids' fan bases to buy like crazy! But they need to be careful because that whole, big non-AI world out there needs a different kind of marketing strategy.
southpaw
Aug 21 2008, 03:01 PM
Oh wow! You mean to tell me E! Online is actually using sensationalistic headlines and hyperbole to attract more eyeballs. Who would of thunk such a classy and polished brand as E! would do such a thing.

Seriously, if you find that this article irks you, take a deep breath and remember all this absurd warmongering among journalist and some fans is purely fabricated with the intention of irritating us. I say we're far too wise and guileful to fall for such silly antics.
Scott
Aug 21 2008, 03:12 PM
QUOTE (southpaw @ Aug 21 2008, 04:01 PM)

Oh wow! You mean to tell me E! Online is actually using sensationalistic headlines and hyperbole to attract more eyeballs. Who would of thunk such a classy and polished brand as E! would do such a thing.

Seriously, if you find that this article irks you, take a deep breath and remember all this absurd warmongering among journalist and some fans is purely fabricated with the intention of irritating us. I say we're far too wise and guileful to fall for such silly antics.
Well said Southpaw!
QUOTE (trickortreat @ Aug 21 2008, 03:34 PM)

Who said the media was fair, all they need is an opening. He didn't mention that David sold all of his in 4 days, if he would have had a week, he would have debuted at number 1.
I'm not much for big fan "campaigns" but in this case, I invite any and all members of d-c.org to post a comment on Eonline, preferably in Jenison's article, reminding him of trickortreat's point above. Let him know he's wrong, it's apples/oranges, and that many of us are fans of both Davids and don't appreciate it - nor does it help his credibility as a journalist (I'm laughing now - journalist!).
EDIT/ADD:
OOH, very interesting. I just linked to the article and wow, there are a TON of replies saying what I suggested. Fans of BOTH Davids are really pissed off about this, saying the contest is over! Good for the fans! People really are fed up! I even see pissed of Archie fans mad that Jenison said TOML sold more the than Crush the first week!
COOKIES-N-CREAM
Aug 21 2008, 03:30 PM
I am sure it makes both Davids get uncomfortable with all the press comparing the two, DC is more apt to handle it but I am betting Archie gets a little embarrassed
I am not worried at all as when DC releases HIS first single it will Rock the charts, why do they compare Archies first single with the AI winner single( NOT David's) , It really is not a fair comparison in that David would never have released a song like TOML on his own.
It is too bad that they have to continue to be compared in all aspects, from concerts to album news UGH
This is the first year that there really are TWO winners and I see success for both, but maybe a little more for David C LOL
li'lsparrow
Aug 21 2008, 03:34 PM
I was afraid of this sort of headline, but I was expecting it.
E! Online has been especially vicious in the fanwar battle. This is probably all them - remember, they are the ones who came up with the tidbit that both Davids will release their albums on the same day. No other news source has come forth with that information, and we don't know if it's even true.
Now, let's be fair, because they do get their facts straight, and they do mention that Cook outsold Archie in first-week sales and that he has more impressive Billboard records to his credit.
QUOTE
Who said the media was fair, all they need is an opening.
I would hope that the media isn't going to use this to beat up on Cook. E!Online has actually been pretty kind to him. Besides, Archie's "victory" is kind of hollow here: when Clay debuted above Ruben, it was because he sold a lot more product than him. This isn't the case yet, and the fanwar is still ongoing. I don't see what Archie accomplished here as that big of a deal, or proof of anything in the real world.
I hope that the media doesn't go crazy over this kind of thing, because I think that would be bad in the long run.
Pam08
Aug 21 2008, 03:42 PM
QUOTE (li'lsparrow @ Aug 21 2008, 07:34 PM)

I was afraid of this sort of headline, but I was expecting it.
E! Online has been especially vicious in the fanwar battle. This is probably all them - remember, they are the ones who came up with the tidbit that both Davids will release their albums on the same day. No other news source has come forth with that information, and we don't know if it's even true.
Now, let's be fair, because they do get their facts straight, and they do mention that Cook outsold Archie in first-week sales and that he has more impressive Billboard records to his credit.
I would hope that the media isn't going to use this to beat up on Cook. E!Online has actually been pretty kind to him.
Besides, Archie's "victory" is kind of hollow here: when Clay debuted above Ruben, it was because he sold a lot more product than him. This isn't the case yet, and the fanwar is still ongoing.
I've voiced my concerns about the media before, but I think if this gets too out of control it could hurt Cook, and I don't want that to happen. I don't troll industry sites so I don't know what people are saying there, but I would hope that the fan-induced paranoia of OMG!ARCHIE GOT ONE HIGHER BILLBOARD RANK THAN COOK! IT'S ALL OOOOOVVVVEEEERRR! DAVID COOK IS THE BIGGEST LOSER EVER! isn't something the media/industry is really running with, but the possibility that it could is just my paranoia talking again, so I'll stop now. But I'd really like it if someone reassured me that it isn't the case. I am, after all, still a crazy fangirl.
Don't take this the wrong way, but why would this hurt Cook? That almost sounds like the crazy nonsense that the idiot posted at mj's blog earlier today in the sales thread that Archie's success would affect David's endorsement deal with Sketchers which is crazy nonsense. They are both going in 2 opposite directions musically. If people want to buy Cook's record they will buy it and if they want to buy Archie's they will but it. It's just that simple.
Scott
Aug 21 2008, 03:51 PM
Very good points li'lsparrow. Also remember, most of us are in our own "bubble." We are living and breathing all this daily on d-c.org and other fan sites, not to mention David's myspace page.
A vast majority of the world out there is NOT in this bubble.. even the folks who tuned in semi-regularly to AI during season 7 aren't as wrapped up in all this as we are. It's still a wide open world out there! Let's see how DC does on his media tours this fall, how the album/single reviews are, and then what the sales and chart numbers are. This converstation is best reserved for late November! And if he doesn't do all that well, then there's really not much else we can all do. But I don't think that will be the case. The man sold nearly 1,000,000 downloads that first week on itunes. I can't believe he won't do the same in November.
And remember one thing: David Cook clearly doesn't care if he's a superstar. He just wants to make a comfortable living doing what he loves. He will DEFINITELY be able to do that for a long, long time! I personally think superstar status awaits him.
QUOTE (Pam08 @ Aug 21 2008, 04:42 PM)

Don't take this the wrong way, but why would this hurt Cook? That almost sounds like the crazy nonsense that the idiot posted at mj's blog earlier today in the sales thread that Archie's success would affect David's endorsement deal with Sketchers which is crazy nonsense. They are both going in 2 opposite directions musically. If people want to buy Cook's record they will buy it and if they want to buy Archie's they will but it. It's just that simple.
I have to agree with Pam on this one. He's got an 18 month contract with Sketchers... it lasts until spring of 2010. None of this can't hurt him. Only a breach of contract or morals clause violation could do that. Have some faith folks!
li'lsparrow
Aug 21 2008, 03:52 PM
You will see I edited my original post so it looks less crazy.
QUOTE
Don't take this the wrong way, but why would this hurt Cook? That almost sounds like the crazy nonsense that the idiot posted at mj's blog earlier today in the sales thread that Archie's success would affect David's endorsement deal with Sketchers which is crazy nonsense.
If the media jumps on the idea that Archie is doing better than Cook, it would be bad for Cook. If there are a lot of these types of headlines, it could hurt the public perception of him.
But really, this is just my crazy side talking.
But I think the majority of people on both sides don't like these kinds of headlines, either.
As far as the Sketchers thing goes, that IS nonsense because the ads are already shot, but I know from a while back there were people convinced that Archie was offered the deal first and turned it down, so maybe that's what that's about.
Scott
Aug 21 2008, 03:58 PM
It's all hogwash. This is like the 4th time we've been down this road. Next week it will be all wonderful news, a great day in Cookie-land, and then the tour will end and the whole dynamic will change again. Geez, October/November can't get here soon enough LOL!
annette
Aug 21 2008, 04:00 PM
the Sketcher marketing campaign is suppose to launch at the conclusion of the tour.
SKECHERS Signs Idol Winner David Cook to Global Deal
Business Wire, July 9, 2008 E-mail Print Link Footwear Company Brings American Idol Winner on Board for Endorsement Agreement
MANHATTAN BEACH, Calif. -- SKECHERS USA, Inc. (NYSE:SKX), a global leader in the lifestyle footwear industry, today announced that it has signed recent American Idol winner and rising star David Cook to a global endorsement agreement. This deal marks the first male celebrity to make SKECHERS' roster since 2002, when actor Robert Downey Jr. was the face of the global brand, and the second American Idol winner, with Carrie Underwood being the first in 2005.
SKECHERS will feature the 25-year-old singer in various SKECHERS' styles through a campaign that will reflect his personality, interests and appeal. Launching in Fall '08, the campaign coincides with the "PopTarts American Idols Live! Tour 2008," and the debut of David's first post-Idol album on 19 Recordings/RCA Records. The SKECHERS Cook campaign will include print, outdoor and in-store.
"I have always viewed SKECHERS as a cool company, so I am excited to be a part of their campaign," said Cook, who proved his enduring popularity by breaking an all-time Billboard chart record with 11 songs debuting on the Hot 100 in a single week after winning American Idol. "They've had some sensational singers like Carrie Underwood and Christina Aguilera as they were starting out and it will be great to be a part of the SKECHERS roster."
"We are thrilled that David will be representing SKECHERS in our marketing campaigns around the world," stated Michael Greenberg, president of SKECHERS. "As a dynamic performer with a friendly, approachable personality, he's a perfect fit for the SKECHERS brand and an exciting next step for our tradition of successful partnerships with emerging music stars."
Greenberg continued, "The crossing-over of fashion and music is beneficial to both industries, and benefits the stars and the brands associated with them. For this reason, we have invested in such phenomenal stars as Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Carrie Underwood, Ashlee Simpson, and now, David Cook."
Along with celebrated songstresses Spears, Aguilera, Underwood and Simpson, and male stars like Rob Lowe, Matt Dillon, former Lakers player Rick Fox and Downey Jr. have all appeared in SKECHERS marketing campaigns.
Mr. Cook did not plan to try out when he went to support his brother at the Omaha, Nebraska auditions for season seven of American Idol. Despite his intentions, he was convinced to sing, and was selected to continue to the Hollywood round. The guitar-playing rock singer overcame the odds to beat out over 100,000 contestants before advancing to the top 24. David received the necessary votes to stick around week after week, until he eventually won the title of "American Idol" at the finale in Los Angeles on May 21, 2008.
The global endorsement agreement was signed with 19 Merchandising Limited on behalf of Mr. Cook.
ABOUT SKECHERS USA, Inc.
bedsidemanners
Aug 21 2008, 04:03 PM
To me, it seems utterly ridiculous to even put the two David's in the same category when it comes to music.
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that Cook is going to be a amazingly successful rockstar, and I also have no doubt in my mind that Archie is going to be a amazingly successful popstar.
They both exist on two different ends of the music spectrum, so clumping them together with the whole "Who sells more albums/Who's single does better?" thing is simply pointless.
They're both going to be successful musicians who do completely opposite things.
If that makes any sense at all :|
Pam08
Aug 21 2008, 04:04 PM
QUOTE (annette @ Aug 21 2008, 08:00 PM)

the Sketcher marketing campaign is suppose to launch at the conclusion of the tour.
I know. That's why that individual's statement was so silly. lol
annette
Aug 21 2008, 04:09 PM
QUOTE (Pam08 @ Aug 21 2008, 08:04 PM)

I know. That's why that individual's statement was so silly. lol
I added the Sketcher press release in my original post and highlighted in red the time line.
southpaw
Aug 21 2008, 04:33 PM
QUOTE (Scott @ Aug 21 2008, 07:51 PM)

Very good points li'lsparrow. Also remember, most of us are in our own "bubble." We are living and breathing all this daily on d-c.org and other fan sites, not to mention David's myspace page.
A vast majority of the world out there is NOT in this bubble.. even the folks who tuned in semi-regularly to AI during season 7 aren't as wrapped up in all this as we are. It's still a wide open world out there! Let's see how DC does on his media tours this fall, how the album/single reviews are, and then what the sales and chart numbers are. This converstation is best reserved for late November! And if he doesn't do all that well, then there's really not much else we can all do. But I don't think that will be the case. The man sold nearly 1,000,000 downloads that first week on itunes. I can't believe he won't do the same in November.
And remember one thing: David Cook clearly doesn't care if he's a superstar. He just wants to make a comfortable living doing what he loves. He will DEFINITELY be able to do that for a long, long time! I personally think superstar status awaits him.
Yes, right now we are in a bubble experiencing this whole thing together. I mentioned this in another thread but I think it bears repeating here. If you believe in karma as I do, then without a doubt David Cook has many, many good things in store for him. And I'm not necessarily talking about karma purely in the Hindu or Buddhist sense. Basically I'm a firm believer that no good deed goes unnoticed. And by that account alone David should be getting a lot of positive attention. Not to mention that the music he makes is actually very good and will gain some attention too. Sure there will always be naysayers trying to beat him down, but I think he's more than strong enough to deal with it. I just hope we as fans can likewise deal with it and learn to write it off as nothing more than a minority of spiteful Archie fans and tabloid media beating the same old drum of doom and gloom.
Scott
Aug 21 2008, 04:53 PM
QUOTE (southpaw @ Aug 21 2008, 05:33 PM)

Yes, right now we are in a bubble experiencing this whole thing together. I mentioned this in another thread but I think it bears repeating here. If you believe in karma as I do, then without a doubt David Cook has many, many good things in store for him. And I'm not necessarily talking about karma purely in the Hindu or Buddhist sense. Basically I'm a firm believer that no good deed goes unnoticed. And by that account alone David should be getting a lot of positive attention. Not to mention that the music he makes is actually very good and will gain some attention too. Sure there will always be naysayers trying to beat him down, but I think he's more than strong enough to deal with it. I just hope we as fans can likewise deal with it and learn to write it off as nothing more than a minority of spiteful Archie fans and tabloid media beating the same old drum of doom and gloom.
Southpaw, you rock! Hey everyone, to get that buzz back (this certainly was a buzz kill thread), see trickortreat's thread in this very forum about David's blog being #1 blog on myspace! Well, that's all the thread says... but we can all reply with nice comments!
http://www.david-cook.org/Davidand39s-blog...ace-t12791.html
WordNerdATL
Aug 21 2008, 06:03 PM
The way this journalist spun the numbers reminds me of a politician. Geez...nothing like a sensationalist headline and apples vs. oranges comparison to get people stirred up. I can't stand these types of articles - I'm sure DC and DA would not be happy about this.
aja
Aug 21 2008, 06:36 PM
The heading was definitely a hook...but they did get their facts straight. I hope other media that gets a hold of this does the same. I try very hard not to get upset about these things I really do...

but sometimes it is difficult when the facts can lead to all this...I don't even know what to call it. Its even more frustrating when Archies(and some Cook fans) are patronizing and say it will be Cook's turn soon. How can we(the followers of AI 7) forget Cook won by millions of votes, had close to a million dowloads in less than a week, and broke some important billboard records as well..it irks me to no end, but it is out of our hands...Just venting. This is nothing against anyone on this board, it is more to Archie forums and MJ blog, which I will stay from until this blows over...my bad for venturing away from Cookieland
BlueLight
Aug 22 2008, 12:53 AM
I don't venture out of Cookieland these days, I don't want to have to digest negative comments, they affect me too much and I have to make too much effort to rationalize.
The last thing the Davids want, I think, is to carry on with this competition, and it is very unfortunate that the press want to make headlines out of it. The comparision between the two singles and the declaration that DA is doing better so far are absurd, but then some articles have nothing to do with genuine information.
DC is going to be under a lot of pressure to do better than DA in the next few months, but so far, whatever the situation, he has managed to come out of it well whilst managing to praise everyone else so I am very optimistic that he will come out glowing once the albums are released.
Agent Krycek
Aug 22 2008, 12:57 AM
It's a shame that some sections of the media choose to carry on this angle, because I bet you no one in the world is more pleased for Archie right now then David, and when David's album/single arrive and are a massive success, I bet you no one will be more pleased for him then Archie.
Cookey's Fan
Aug 22 2008, 01:34 AM
QUOTE (Agent Krycek @ Aug 22 2008, 04:57 PM)

It's a shame that some sections of the media choose to carry on this angle, because I bet you no one in the world is more pleased for Archie right now then David, and when David's album/single arrive and are a massive success, I bet you no one will be more pleased for him then Archie.
My thoughts exactly. 
Never mind the figures, cos they don't exactly lie. Still, I'm not gonna fall into the trap of the fan-war hype that E! is trying to stir up. Besides, the competition was long over and most fans from both sides have acknowledged that fact. Not all, but most.
Besides, Archie 'crushed' David? The article spoke way too soon.
D'Alice
Aug 22 2008, 01:48 AM
So yea when I launch the internet I have my service providers home page set as mine (Its Comcastic! Not really)…Front page, this article, My heart sank when I read it. I was sooooo freakin happy yesterday when I logged in to myspace and saw “New Blog Post” From one extreme to another huh?
I think the thing for me why I ALMOST gave in to this media hype is casue DC is so open with us and giving with his time and thoughts I didn’t want reporters such as this to affect him. I have said since day one he’s defiantly made the most of the media driven world we live today and is so smart using that medium to stay connected to us with his myspace and you tube page. Any ways we know so much about him as he has let us in along with being so media savvy, and the first thing I though was “Oh no! I hope he doesn’t know about this, this fan war stuff would be terrible for him to hear and he would hate it for sure!!”
But then I remembered that this is David Cook and I hit myself in the head and I came to my favorite site on the internets…Lil Sparrow and Southpaw…word to what you both said, word to that, and to everyone else’s viewpoints.
The balls to the wall, do or die, in it for the long haul, honest music lovers and admires of witch ever David you so choose will not fall into this whole chart war bs, and that means me.
Needless to say I have changed my homepage and E! will be another one of those entertainment news sources (if you wannna call it that) that I will avoid just like TMZ and all the others cause of such utter nonsense.
trickortreat
Aug 22 2008, 03:46 AM
The hardest part for me, will be watching David field the questions, he's so proud. They will forget all about his amazing acomplishments and key in on this.
li'lsparrow
Aug 22 2008, 04:22 AM
QUOTE
The hardest part for me, will be watching David field the questions, he's so proud. They will forget all about his amazing acomplishments and key in on this.
Is the news really *that* widespread by this point? I haven't seen this pop up in any of the press Cook has done so far.
Even this troublesome article makes it a point to indicate what Cook's accomplishments are, so I don't why people are assuming that the media has already declared that Archie is superior to Cook and has forgotten all about what he
has done.
Is there something going on I don't know about? Is Archie on the cover of Rolling Stone already?
This isn't MJ's, so I don't know why we should assume that it's all over. I don't even think the person that wrote this article is that biased.
annie702
Aug 22 2008, 04:36 AM
QUOTE (trickortreat @ Aug 22 2008, 04:46 AM)

The hardest part for me, will be watching David field the questions, he's so proud. They will forget all about his amazing acomplishments and key in on this.
as sensitive as he may be, david has a sense of humor... i don't think this will bother him one bit. (remember, he's a future mrs. archuleta

)
slw321
Aug 22 2008, 04:57 AM
I think it would be pretty difficult for anybody (sense of humor or not) to read nasty things about themselves.
Fred Bronson from Billboard devoted his entire Chart Beat column to Archie and pulled out the Ruben comparison. What is ironic is that, in reality, the stats are not comparable.
For example: With Ruben and Clay, everything went in Clay's favor (single sales, album sales and chart position).
With Taylor and Daughtry, initial single sales is a toss-up (Daughtry's track on the season's compilation disc outsold Taylor's but Taylor's coronation sold outsold that). Initial and total album sales obviously went to Daughtry. But, as for chart position, Taylor still has a #1 to his name while Daughtry's highest is #4. If chart position were so all important, that would mean that Taylor's success is far superior to Daughtry's, but that isn't the case.
19/Jive played this exceptionally well. They announced that a single would be released a month ahead of time, giving what they knew was a massive, passionate fan base a chance to mobilize. They then debuted the song on the biggest radio station in the country. They release the single to itunes with a front page ad on the same day as huge Disney releases to gain piggyback sales. The result: a #2 debut (while underperforming Cook's initial sales by 70k with two additional sales days). Well played, indeed.
The sad part is that the media (as I previously "speculated") is jumping all over this to bash Cookie. They are, in essence, dismissing him before a single note of his music has been heard (let alone had an opportunity to sell or hit the all-important chart). 19/RCA (forgive my upcoming language) had better remove their head from their *** soon and start focusing on DC's career before what is now an uphill battle becomes impossible.
annie702
Aug 22 2008, 05:03 AM
true, it sucks to read nasty things about yourself... but chart info isn't bashing. there are much worse, more mean-spirited and hurtful things that people have said... and will continue to say. it's an occupational hazard.
but, you know what i do see in this thread? that david has a loyal fanbase that will defend him... and that's pretty cool!
southpaw
Aug 22 2008, 06:12 AM
No offense to anyone here, but I think some of you are losing sight that the world at large is not engaged or even aware of this media-fabricated war of the Davids. Needless to say, you are also mistakenly assuming this is somehow going to damage or discredit Cook's career. I can assure you that most people outside of our little bubble don't base their decision on what artists they like and are going to support by what is written about them in such tabloid fair as E! Online.
annette
Aug 22 2008, 06:27 AM
Folks:
Here is the interview/article again from the other day from Houston. If you look half way down the page - the interviewer asks David's thoughts about both Archie and Kristie's single coming out - I really like David's response. Don't forget - Archie (in this case) had Crush handed to him and all he had to do was go into the Studio to sing it.
Our David is closely involved in the writing process - he will put out a quality product when the product is ready to be put out.
http://www.david-cook.org/Tour-leaves-Davi...ime-t12744.html -
I am sure that David is reading these types of reviews and he is putting in 110% effort
Scott
Aug 22 2008, 06:39 AM
I hesitated to post and perpetuate this thread any more, but I want put down a few thoughts here. First, I second everything southpaw wrote in the post above mine. No one at work whom I talk to is even aware of any of this.
Here are some hard facts and realistic speculations:
1) Archie got lots of promotion on the radio for a week leading up to Crush's release for sale. Of course he's going to do well. It's a GOOD sign that an Idol contestant can still sell, months after the AI finale buzz.
2) Cook will get the same promotion on air at key radio stations in advance of his next release, and likely a lot more promotion when he makes the rounds on televison this fall. Plus the sketchers add. There will be plenty of buzz.
3) We all know these chart comparisons are apples/oranges... a coronation song vs. professionally written, major label released single. Yes Archie got the higher chart position, but Cook sold far more, and in just 4 days because TOML wasn't released at the beginning of the week... it was midnight after the Finale Wed/Thu. If the competing songs were the same that week, TOML would have debuted at #1 on the Hot 100 with those numbers.
4) Cook sold nearly 1 million downloads that first week, and we all know how he dominated the charts with a record breaking 11 songs. Even more songs in the digitial chart. No Idol has ever done that... no artist has even done that since the Beatles! This fact WAS accurately mentioned in the article.
IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:
5) What makes anyone think Cook won't smash all of these numbers when he releases his next single, and the the album? I have every reason to believe his single will debut at #2 or #1 on the Hot 100 and have numbers closer to 300,000. IF TOML did 230,000 (or close to that-I forget the exact #), why shouldn't his next single do even better? Yes, the excitement of AI and it's high viewership is long over, but no one bought TOML if they weren't a DC fan that first week. Those fans still exist. I think since his new single will be a much better song and in the right genre, he'll do much better in sales.
6) David has always out performed Archie. I hate to play this game. But so many people are sitting here with that pit in their stomach, getting sick over that article. Is this not the same feeling you had when Simon declared a knockout by Archie? The next night, a record number of votes and a landslide win for Cook. Followed by the 900,000+ sales on itunes to Archie's 300,000+ that first week.
And don't forget the Cavallo factor, the Stand Up2Cancer appearance, the collaborations... Cook has already planted a solid foot in the ground with the movers and shakers of the industry.
Summary: yes Archie did great this week. We expected Archie to do great. We expect both Davids to do well enough to be considered two big successes from one season... and the FIRST time that the two AI successes are the winner and the runner up. I just want people to realize that there's no reason to believe that Cook won't have an equally successful debut single & CD; there's actually plenty of evidence that he will do better. I know Archie's Pop/Top 40 genre outsells all other genres, but I think if Cook hits the charts as Coldplay did this year, getting played on rock and Pop/Top 40 and AC (Viva La Vida is everywhere) then he will be the chart buster we expect and hope for. I think what's most annoying is that we don't get instant gratification.. that we have to wait a couple more months for the single. We just have to be patient and not let these articles get us down. We are the ones who will make this happen for David! I see every sign that we will send him to chart and sales bliss!
And slw321, as always, I respect your viewpoints - and you and I have had some great discussions about this - but I just don't think anyone is being set up for failure. I don't think Cook has an uphill climb or an impossible feat ahead of him. I don't have an MBA, but it goes against every business model and practice I can think of, for 19 Entertainment to "manage Cook into oblivion." It just makes no sense businesswise... they have spent a fortune on him, in money and time. Everyone, please get real here! He'll get the promotion and he'll have a great debut. There's nothting else we can do about it. All we can do is consume his product (how's that for an MBA-style phrase!).
I DO think TPTB could be playing a game to boost sales and energize fan bases... but they're way too heavily invested with Cook and I firmly believe they will promote the hell out of him and that he will overcome negative press the way Daughtry did. Record debuts aren't everyting. A song/album must sustain and on the road the artist must build loyal fan bases. "Crush" is already dropping fast on the charts, down to #6 this morning on itunes. Let's see what happens.
annie702
Aug 22 2008, 06:42 AM
wanna know something funny? i haven't heard 'viva la vida' yet! ...and if i have, it wasn't memorable.
Scott
Aug 22 2008, 06:57 AM
QUOTE (annie702 @ Aug 22 2008, 07:42 AM)

wanna know something funny? i haven't heard 'viva la vida' yet! ...and if i have, it wasn't memorable.
Really? I bet you have but don't know it

. Sample it on itunes this morning. It's a really cool song, and the CD is great. It was my favorite of the year but then Carolina Liar's "Coming to Terms" took that crown!
southpaw
Aug 22 2008, 07:09 AM
QUOTE (Scott @ Aug 22 2008, 10:39 AM)

I hesitated to post and perpetuate this thread any more, but I want put down a few thoughts here. First, I second everything southpaw wrote in the post above mine. No one at work whom I talk to is even aware of any of this.
Here are some hard facts and realistic speculations:
1) Archie got lots of promotion on the radio for a week leading up to Crush's release for sale. Of course he's going to do well. It's a GOOD sign that an Idol contestant can still sell, months after the AI finale buzz.
2) Cook will get the same promotion on air at key radio stations in advance of his next release, and likely a lot more promotion when he makes the rounds on televison this fall. Plus the sketchers add. There will be plenty of buzz.
3) We all know these chart comparisons are apples/oranges... a coronation song vs. professionally written, major label released single. Yes Archie got the higher chart position, but Cook sold far more, and in just 4 days because TOML wasn't released at the beginning of the week... it was midnight after the Finale Wed/Thu. If the competing songs were the same that week, TOML would have debuted at #1 on the Hot 100 with those numbers.
4) Cook sold nearly 1 million downloads that first week, and we all know how he dominated the charts with a record breaking 11 songs. Even more songs in the digitial chart. No Idol has ever done that... no artist has even done that since the Beatles! This fact WAS accurately mentioned in the article.
IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:
5) What makes anyone think Cook won't smash all of these numbers when he releases his next single, and the the album? I have every reason to believe his single will debut at #2 or #1 on the Hot 100 and have numbers closer to 300,000. IF TOML did 230,000 (or close to that-I forget the exact #), why shouldn't his next single do even better? Yes, the excitement of AI and it's high viewership is long over, but no one bought TOML if they weren't a DC fan that first week. Those fans still exist. I think since his new single will be a much better song and in the right genre, he'll do much better in sales.
6) David has always out performed Archie. I hate to play this game. But so many people are sitting here with that pit in their stomach, getting sick over that article. Is this not the same feeling you had when Simon declared a knockout by Archie? The next night, a record number of votes and a landslide win for Cook. Followed by the 900,000+ sales on itunes to Archie's 300,000+ that first week.
And don't forget the Cavallo factor, the Stand Up2Cancer appearance, the collaborations... Cook has already planted a solid foot in the ground with the movers and shakeres of the industry.
Summary: yes Archie did great this week. We expected Archie to do great. We expect both Davids to do well enough to be considered two big successes from one season... and the FIRST time that the two AI successes are the winner and the runner up. I just want people to realize that there's no reason to believe that Cook won't have an equally successful debut single & CD; there's actually plenty of evidence that he will do better. I know Archie's Pop/Top 40 genre outsells all other genres, but I think if Cook hits the charts as Coldplay did this year, getting played on rock and Pop/Top 40 and AC (Viva La Vida is everywhere) then he will be the chart buster we expect and hope for. I think what's most annoying is that we don't get instant gratification.. that we have to wait a couple more months for the single. We just have to be patient and not let these articles get us down. We are the ones who will make this happen for David! I see every sign that we will send him to chart and sales bliss!
And slw321, as always, I respect your viewpoints - and you and I have had some great discussions about this - but I just don't think anyone is being set up for failure. I don't think Cook has an uphill climb or an impossible feat ahead of him. I don't have an MBA, but it goes against every business model and practice I can think of, for 19 Entertainment to "manage Cook into oblivion." It just makes no sense businesswise... they have spent a fortune on him, in money and time. Everyone, please get real here! He'll get the promotion and he'll have a great debut. There's nothting else we can do about it. All we can do is consume his product (how's that for an MBA-style phrase!).
I DO think TPTB could be playing a game to boost sales and energize fan bases... but they're way too heavily invested with Cook and I firmly believe they will promote the hell out of him and that he will overcome negative press the way Daughtry did. Record debuts aren't everyting. A song/album must sustain and on the road the artist must build loyal fan bases. "Crush" is already dropping fast on the charts, down to #6 this morning on itunes. Let's see what happens.
Ditto to everything you just said Scott. If you choose to buy into this battle cry to pit the two Davids against each other and are constantly comparing and contrasting everything they do, then be prepared to be in a constant state of anxiety and despair. I can't quite understand why anyone would purposely want to put themselves through this. Otherwise, you can move on and realize the competition is over (and has been for a long time) and enjoy the ride David Cook is about to take us on.
annie702
Aug 22 2008, 07:16 AM
QUOTE (Scott @ Aug 22 2008, 07:57 AM)

Really? I bet you have but don't know it

. Sample it on itunes this morning. It's a really cool song, and the CD is great. It was my favorite of the year but then Carolina Liar's "Coming to Terms" took that crown!
maybe i heard it on their myspace a while ago and just don't remember. c'est la vie. i'll probably check it out tonight.
WordNerdATL
Aug 22 2008, 08:05 AM
QUOTE (southpaw @ Aug 22 2008, 10:12 AM)

No offense to anyone here, but I think some of you are losing sight that the world at large is not engaged or even aware of this media-fabricated war of the Davids.
I would definitely agree with this! We (at least me) are super-sensitive to things like this because we follow so closely. However, most people in the world just want to hear the music and don't care about the behind-the-scenes drama (which is in this case is no drama from DC or DA but just media-induced drama).
Case in point: I e-mailed some friends regarding my missed encounter with David on Monday night and I got an e-mail back from a friend who is in his late 50s that I used to work with. His response: "What is American Idol? Who is David Cook?" LOL. He did not even know what Idol is. But he is the type of person that if he heard a good rock song on the radio, he'd be all over it.
Everytime I get to worrying about Cookie, I just think to myself of how I would get nervous for him during the AI season and he would pull through *every* time. We are the benefactors of his perfectionism. I have no doubt that his singles are going to debut at #1 - he has an extremely supportive, widespread, and huge fanbase out there. More so than we probably even realize.
BlueLight
Aug 22 2008, 08:15 AM
QUOTE (WordNerdATL @ Aug 22 2008, 05:05 PM)

Everytime I get to worrying about Cookie, I just think to myself of how I would get nervous for him during the AI season and he would pull through *every* time.
yes, he pulls through every time.
And when I start to worry, I look at a picture of him where he oozes intelligence and charisma, and then I am reassured that there is no way on earth that this man won't be very successful
annette
Aug 22 2008, 08:16 AM
You know what - I want E-Online to capture the story of David and Lindsey Rose - at the end of the day, this is an important story right now - not Archuleta "Crushes" Cook on Charts. Stories like what David is doing associated with Cancer Awareness and making a 7 year old's day a wonderful memory this is what the public is going to remember.
http://www.david-cook.org/index.php?showtopic=12812&hl=#
Jenney
Aug 22 2008, 08:18 AM
QUOTE (Scott @ Aug 21 2008, 05:51 PM)

And remember one thing: David Cook clearly doesn't care if he's a superstar. He just wants to make a comfortable living doing what he loves. He will DEFINITELY be able to do that for a long, long time! I personally think superstar status awaits him.
I think this is a very important point! If David is successful enough to make a comfortable living as a musician without needing any side jobs, I think he'll be happy and so will his fans! (In fact, this is a really good scenario for his devoted fans since we'd probably all have more access to him.) But that said, I suspect he's going to be a superstar like Scott says.
annie702
Aug 22 2008, 08:54 AM
QUOTE (Jenney @ Aug 22 2008, 09:18 AM)

I think this is a very important point! If David is successful enough to make a comfortable living as a musician without needing any side jobs, I think he'll be happy and so will his fans! (In fact, this is a really good scenario for his devoted fans since we'd probably all have more access to him.) But that said, I suspect he's going to be a superstar like Scott says.

yeah, call me selfish, but i'd almost prefer he wasn't a big superstar (yet love it when he's recognized as one

).
Kitkat
Aug 22 2008, 08:57 AM
QUOTE (Scott @ Aug 21 2008, 07:51 PM)

And remember one thing: David Cook clearly doesn't care if he's a superstar. He just wants to make a comfortable living doing what he loves. He will DEFINITELY be able to do that for a long, long time! I personally think superstar status awaits him.
This sums up my feelings exactly. It's just another thing I love about him. He just wants to make music. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he would prefer NOT to be a superstar, so he could have a more normal life and be closer to his fans (he might be out of luck escaping superstardom, though - I agree with you, Scott). He was probably the first to applaud Archie on the news.
I was irritated seeing this article in my Yahoo Entertainment headlines, and I was tempted to respond as I have in the past, but I think this type of thing might just go away if we quit responding to it. If they can no longer get a rise out of anyone with it, maybe it will end.
JerseyGirl2
Aug 22 2008, 09:12 AM
QUOTE (annette @ Aug 22 2008, 12:16 PM)

You know what - I want E-Online to capture the story of David and Lindsey Rose - at the end of the day, this is an important story right now - not Archuleta "Crushes" Cook on Charts. Stories like what David is doing associated with Cancer Awareness and making a 7 year old's day a wonderful memory this is what the public is going to remember.
http://www.david-cook.org/index.php?showtopic=12812&hl=#Hear hear, Annette, let's focus on what's important.
Pam08
Aug 22 2008, 09:16 AM
QUOTE (Kitkat @ Aug 22 2008, 12:57 PM)

This sums up my feelings exactly. It's just another thing I love about him. He just wants to make music. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he would prefer NOT to be a superstar, so he could have a more normal life and be closer to his fans (he might be out of luck escaping superstardom, though - I agree with you, Scott). He was probably the first to applaud Archie on the news.
I was irritated seeing this article in my Yahoo Entertainment headlines, and I was tempted to respond as I have in the past, but I think this type of thing might just go away if we quit responding to it. If they can no longer get a rise out of anyone with it, maybe it will end.
Exactly! I do feel bad for fans of either David that had to read that smut. Yes, I call it smut. These 2 are great friends obviously and want nothing more for each other to be successful. I truly believe that.
I must say one more thing too. As far as 19 and RCA goes with singles and such, what why do people keep coming up with these crap theories that RCA is not going to or isn't currently promoting David? ummm...has anyone forgotten how well TOML has done lately? At last count there were 3 Mediabase ads total for the song. If RCA wasn't backing him, there would have been no ads and those ads aren't cheap btw and neither is getting front page placement on i-tunes. As far as label marketing, once RCA has done their part, it's up to radio to do theirs when it comes to getting singles to radio. The program directors are the ones who make the ultimate decisions on what ends up on their playlist and what doesn't, not the label.
Oh, and one final thing, when those questions came in for the Larry King segment, one of the fans had the audacity to admit on mj's blog of sending David a question asking if him if his single was coming out before the CD. I'm so glad that question wasn't picked for the Q & A session! People are just going to have to have faith, CHILL, and try to be patient and just support David through the process. Ok, end of rant.
li'lsparrow
Aug 22 2008, 09:56 AM
QUOTE
I must say one more thing too. As far as 19 and RCA goes with singles and such, what why do people keep coming up with these crap theories that RCA is not going to or isn't currently promoting David?
Because some people are convinced that they hate him no matter what else will ever happen.
It's wise to remember that to most people this kind of news doesn't really mean all that much. To the general public, what matters is if they see these songs on TV and on the radio and if they like it enough they will buy the album/single. David Cook's recent TV exposure proves that 19 is not giving up on him, but I guess some people will beleive what they want to believe no matter what.
BlueLight
Aug 22 2008, 10:01 AM
QUOTE (li'lsparrow @ Aug 22 2008, 06:56 PM)

Because some people are convinced that they hate him no matter what else will ever happen. I don't know how they think they are supporting David, but all of these crazy theories aren't doing anything but ripping apart his fanbase and driving interest down. None of it is helping him whatsoever.
RCA/19 didn't have to give Cook a front-page ad on ITunes, or let his song be broadcast to the Lympics, or feature it on all of the 19-linked sister shows. They didn't have to let him accept that Sketchers deal. They didn't have to let him do that cancer benefit. If they really hate him so much, why are they bothering?
Who is thinking that 19E hate him? If they are DC fans, then they are seriously paranoid. Why would 19E hate Cookie? It just doesn't make sense.
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